Stupidity: Dr. Jekyll must take an injection to keep himself from turning into the murderous Mr. Hyde. Hyde obviously doesn't want Jekyll to take the injections because he wants to remain in control of the body. The time between when he begins to feel himself turn into Hyde and when he has fully transformed is ridiculously brief. Why then does he keep the syringe locked in a box in his desk rather than on his person at all times?
Stupidity: When Charley goes to Evil's house, he asks him how to protect himself from vampires. Since Charley is such a huge fan of Fright Night and watches it all the time, he should already know everything to protect himself from Jerry.
Stupidity: The entire plot revolves around the First Order chasing the ships, waiting for the Resistance to run out of fuel. They could have easily destroyed the Resistance's fleet by sending a Star Destroyer or two around to cut them off from the other side and blast them into oblivion.
Maybe. But if the First Order does this the entire plot of the movie as it is is ruined. So, maybe both?
Just because you didn't like the movie doesn't change a character stupidity into a plot hole.
What prevents a character's stupidity from being a plot hole? Is it wrong to want competent villains? If a character is supposed to be intelligent (let's say, a naval commander or military leader) and has the capability to achieve his or her objective with an obvious decision a character of his or her stature should make but does not and it is the only reason the plot of the movie still exist, is it not both a plot hole and character stupidity? Not just Hux, Snoke, Kylo, and every other First Order officer failed to realise this. How? It does not make any sense. At the very least try to explain in the movie how the FO let the Resistance get away because they refused to let Star Destroyer make a few hyperspace jumps and cut the Resistance off.
Hux is an idiot, Snoke is a fraud and Kylo doesn't really strike me as a strategic mastermind.
Hux only really becomes an idiot because of this movie. In TFA, he is an established military officer who does come across as more feared and respected. The change in this movie is then character stupidity and/or a character mistake that creates a big plot hole from the start.
Well the new movie puts a whole new light into that. Changes the whole discussion.
So they retconned to correct this mistake? Still makes it a mistake in my opinion. Especially since it is not just Hux who could have been a better leader. Any FO military officer could have brought it up and executed that idea.
In the time it takes to switch the hyperdrive on and off again, travelling at light speed you would travel so far ahead of them you would take days to get back to them. In a quarter of a second at lightspeed you travel much farther than the length of the planet Earth.
To answer the question: a plot hole is something that contradicts something already established in the film that's done to move the plot along or resolve an issue. A stupidity is a minor plot hole, but can also be character acting contradictory to what's been established, usually to keep the plot going. A character mistake is a character making a mistake or error they shouldn't have (usually because the writers don't know the right answer). Characters acting stupid or irrationally or making human errors is not a valid movie mistake.
So by this, it is a plot hole because the Star Destroyers can jump in and out of hyperspace and could make that jump to cut the Resistance off. It is character stupidity because Hux is established as a high ranking military officer in TFA and thus should know basic military strategy along with all of his fellow officers. I think if a character acts stupid which goes against their established personality and traits without a good reason, it is very much a mistake. Hux was not pressured into an irrational decision. In fact, it is the most calming battle to ever take place in Star Wars. There is no reason for him to be this incompetent. He is only this way because Rian wrote him this way, which on your list is a character mistake too. When the general audience is a better military tactician than the FO Commander in the movie, it is a bad sign.
The problem is that we as the audience know the Resistance will find a way out of this situation. General Hux believes he has the Resistance trapped and they have no escape. In his mind, the plan was working perfectly well. There's no reason to alter the plan. It's not like they are under a time crunch and need to destroy the ships as quickly as possible. By moving the cruisers out of range and crawling away, it was clear to Hux that the Resistance had run out of options. Hux doesn't need to do anything differently in his mind, so he doesn't. It only seems stupid to us because we know the heroes will find a way out because heroes always do.
I am sure the First Order is well aware that the Resistance is doing all they can to find an escape, however unlikely it is. However, contrary to the audience, they do not know how they plan on doing so. All the more reason for the First Order to blow the Resistance to bits while they still can. What is the benefit of just waiting for the Resistance to run out of fuel in the first place? Wouldn't it just be better to end them swiftly? Also, it is not just Hux. There are other military officers and you would think there would be a few of them who would want to destroy the Resistance while the opportunity was present. Its decisions like these that make you wonder how the First Order gained so much power in the first place.
It is just Hux. The captain of the Dreadnaught makes it clear that Hux is in general command, as he is irritated that Hux did not scramble fighters as soon as Poe's X-Wing showed up. Overconfidence has been a staple of Star Wars villains from the very beginning, and if it's a movie mistake here then it's also a mistake that Tarkin doesn't evacuate the Death Star; or that Vader doesn't force choke Luke on Bespin instead of trying to trap him in carbonite; or that Jaba doesn't shoot Luke Skywalker instead of taking him to the Sarlaac pit; etc.
Comparing Tarkin's overconfidence to Hux's actions is practically insulting. The Empire believed the Death Star was indestructible until the flaw was discovered during the Rebels' attack run. Even with this flaw, the chances of the Rebels' success was incredibly slim. The Rebels have already failed multiple times and the Empire was mere seconds away from ending the Rebellion for good. The probability of the Empire ending the Rebels once and for all was almost a certainty and it was logical to take the chance. Tarkin may have been overconfident, but he had a right to be. The Vader example is dumb too. The Emperor ordered Luke to be taken to him alive. To do that, they were going to entrap him in carbonite. That was Vader's goal, not to kill him with a Force choke. Jabba is a sadistic showman, as seen when he fed Oola to the Rancor. When Luke is captured, he created a show in which he can enjoy. How Luke died was just as important to him as Luke dying.
Tarkin said he wanted to destroy the Rebellion with one swift stroke. Key word here being swift, not lazily waiting for some gas just to run out. If Tarkin was in charge of the First Order instead of Hux, the Resistance would have easily been destroyed, no questions asked. Having Hux betray what he was supposed to be from TFA by being a passive, ignorant, and incompetent leader causes the FO to be nonthreatening, terrible villains, and defeats any suspense in the plot. It's illogical for the audience to believe that a military commander could be this stupid.
Completely and entirely disagree with your assessment. Tarkin's overconfidence and Hux's overconfidence both come from the same belief: that their enemies have no means of victory. Both men believe they have already won and it is only a matter of time before they win. Tarkin is flat out told that there is a chance that the rebels will destroy them and he chooses not to evacuate. This overconfidence is a staple of every movie in this series because the major theme of an underdog triumphing over the odds demands this. I did not mean that Vader should force choke Luke to death, but once the plan to freeze him fails he certainly could have tried harder to incapacitate Luke. By not doing so he allows Luke to escape. This isn't dumb, it's just overconfident. Jabba choosing to put on a show rather than just shooting his enemies is the very definition of overconfidence, and it's honestly strange that you seem to be arguing that it isn't.
I was arguing against your assessment of Vader and Tarkin and explaining Jabba's view and how it differs from how Tarkin and Hux should go about things. Jabba is an overconfident crimelord and thus has different traits then a military leader so it is unjust to compare him to Tarkin and Hux. Tarkin was given that information mid battle a mere minute away from wiping out of the Rebellion. Here it is believable of him to assess the situation, see the Rebels have already failed multiple attempts, and that the Rebels chance for success was minuscule and waiting was the best option. Hux's ability to end the war is literally right there. Not minutes away, seconds away if he would have just commanded a ship to cut them off. There is no benefit in waiting, whereas Tarkin is operating a Death Star and must wait as it moves differently (slower, less maneuverable) than a Star Destroyer. Even if they have the same belief, Tarkin acts competently and Hux acts unbelievably moronic.
I think that's where I'm having a problem with your statements. I don't believe that Hux acted "unbelievably moronic." His plan was working perfectly fine. Just because he didn't wipe out of the ships as fast as he possibly could doesn't make him a moron, or a bad military leader. Hux had just lost Starkiller Base and his Dreadnaught, so it is perfectly reasonable for him to take a safe approach with destroying the remaining Rebel ships; picking them off one-by-one at no risk to his fleet whatsoever. His plan works absolutely fine and the few Rebels that do survive only do because Luke Skywalker projects his image across space to stall Kylo Ren. "Military leader" doesn't mean "infallable" and it certainly isn't a gap in the film's logic, especially in the Star Wars series, to have a leader make questionable decisions in hindsight.
You just said Hux was an extremely risk adverse military leader, whereas good military leaders must deliberately accept tactical risks. However, there is no risk here. Destroying the Resistance fleet would have been easy since all of their fighters and bombers were already destroyed fighting the Dreadnaught. Regular sight should have been able to see that waiting for the Resistance to think up an escape plan was a bad idea. Especially since the First Order knows the Resistance has a map to Luke Skywalker and his arrival could completely turn the tide of the battle. Logically, the First Order should destroy the Resistance fleet before Luke could arrive. The only explanation, which makes for a bad movie, is that Hux is unlike what he was represented in TFA and is an incompetent leader. From the beginning, he was never meant to be like is TFA self. He did fall for a "your mama" joke to start the movie and let a Dreadnaught die from the slowest bombers in the galaxy.
I did not say that Hux was "extremely risk averse." I said that Hux took a safe approach. Having Hux plan to defeat the Rebels before Luke Skywalker could show up would have also been out of character. The villains in the Star Wars stories consistently believe that not even a powerful Jedi could stop their plans when they have convinced themselves they've already won. Snoke says as much during this very film.
You said Hux likes playing it safe, that means he is a risk adverse military leader, or at least made a risk adverse decision when there didn't need to be one. So it is now out of character for Hux to defeat the Resistance until Luke shows up? At this point, the only reason it makes sense for Hux to act this way is what was revealed in TRoS, which would be a retcon to cover the mistake in this movie. I find your villain statement more of opinion then truth. It may only make sense in this trilogy. Palpatine is the true villain of Star Wars and his big plan to rule the galaxy found it necessary to kill all the powerful Jedi, so he obviously was not convinced he could win with them alive. As Emperor, discovering a potential Jedi in Luke was treated like an actual threat, maybe the only true threat. The Emperor wants Luke dead/capture in ESB. The Emperor tries to turn Luke in RotJ. The Emperor does believe he can turn/defeat Luke, and he would have defeated him if Vader hadn't intervened.
You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that Hux "likes playing it safe." I said that he took a safe approach in this particular situation.
I'm gonna say it here too, the new movie puts it all in a whole new light. So just wait till you see it. (not that it's particularly good though).
We do not know exactly when this character decided to do that. Could have been before or after these events. Most likely it occurred after Snoke died and Kylo took power. So that is just speculation. If this character's decision does occur before the events of this movie, then it is a retcon to cover this mistake, meaning the mistake exists.
Exactly. This movie's plot is very flawed and it lacks logic to the big extent. Hux was much more competent in TFA, so his behavior in TLJ was both stupidity and a plothole.
Then they should have written a better plot. Complaining that rational act ruins the plot is a writing issue with the plot. They shouldn't have written this problem in the first place. You can't hide behind the "but it will ruin the film" excuse when the writers could have written literally anything else.
Suggested correction: In the time it takes to switch the hyperdrive on and off they would have travelled so far in front of the rebels that they would be worse off than before. Even switching the drive in for .25 of a second would carry them around 400,000 kilometers if my memory serves. This is still a plot hole. The first order ships are bigger, therefore they should be faster due to larger/ more engines and the "fuel" issue is wrong because all you have to do is switch off your engine and you will not stop.
Suggested correction: Why would they need to? They easily outgun what remains of the Resistance, and they're patient enough to wait for the ships to run out of fuel. The First Order was overconfident, but they were not wrong about their plan working.
What is the benefit of the First Order waiting? It would be better to take out your enemy swiftly when given the chance. Especially since we are told this is the last of the Resistance. Destroying these few ships would then end the war and give the First Order control of the galaxy.
Stupidity: When a cop goes to Kevin's house after being requested by police, he simply knocks on the door and after a few seconds walks away assuming no ones home. Had he actually bothered to announce himself as a cop, Kevin would have opened the door and he would have been found safe.
Suggested correction: Some people just aren't good at their job or are too lazy. The cop didn't like the idea of being sent on a possible fake call and didn't put in the extra effort. Or he was simply waiting for someone to ask who it was before identifying himself. Plus the cop would have had no idea Kevin was hiding and not answering the door because he was scared nor that saying he was the police would get him to answer the door, he could have simply thought a kid left alone would answer the door to anyone.
Even if he thought it was a fake call, he still should have identified himself. By doing this, he could have confirmed that Kevin was indeed left alone.
And the script could have been written a 100 different ways to prevent Kevin from being left home alone, but that doesn't mean there's a plot hole or movie mistake.
Creating series of silly explanations for obvious mistakes/plotholes never resolves them. He should have identified himself regardless of the circumstances.
Exactly.
Perhaps the officer's failure to identify himself (as well as other deficiencies in the way he responded to the call) would more accurately be classified as a "character mistake"? This may result in fewer criticisms (corrections) while not negating the "stupidity."
Maybe it should be. Because he acted much too unprofessionally for a police officer.
Stupidity: The entire plot hinges on a military facility that knows it's housing what's essentially a sentient world-ending disease, and that has the foresight and resources to build a containment room with a cyanide failsafe, having nothing else to stop said virus from breaking out beside the glass her room is mostly composed of. Once she's out of that room, she just has to run through an unlocked, labeled exit door and hop a fence. Where are the emergency bulkheads? Where are the armed guards watching the hallways? Why isn't that fence electrified? Why isn't she wearing a metal shock-collar at all times? Even if that glass was bulletproof and/or they seriously underestimated her strength, they'd still have to open the door to her room at various times to give and take her food, books, laundry and waste.
Stupidity: John, the guy who taught Chucky the voodoo spell is confronted by Chucky later on in doll form. When things don't go how Chucky wants, he finds a Voodoo doll of the same guy just lying around and uses it to torture him. So this idiot who knows Voodoo and what it does, happens to have a Voodoo doll of himself just lying around? Yeah sure, that can't go wrong at all.
Suggested correction: Not all magic is evil, and the doll could've been made for something else.
Stupidity: Ultimately, it did wind up working. However when they shoved the antidote vial into Claire's purse and got George's attention so he would eat her, this was an insanely stupid move. 1. They had no way of knowing if he would actually choose to eat her if he even grabbed her in the first place. Before then he'd been crushing people and even threw the helicopter pilot miles off the building while they watched that happen. 2. The antidote was in a plastic polymer like tube designed to hold the substance inside it while submerged in liquid nitrogen containment. Even if the gorilla's stomach acid could eat through the vial to get to the antidote, it would take hours for it to get through a material like that. 3. Gorillas are herbivores, so it wouldn't have tried to eat a person in the first place. (01:17:55)
Stupidity: Mrs. Doubtfire used the bathroom without first locking the door, enabling Chris (or anyone else) to walk in on her. A man who is dressed as a woman and doesn't want anyone to find out would make sure the bathroom door was closed and LOCKED. (01:07:09)
Suggested correction: Daniel is in his own house, and he may be used to using the bathroom without locking the door. Besides, he probably only thought he was going to be in there for a short time.
Stupidity: If the song "Beyond the Sea" can be continuously broadcast on the radio station as a "cryptic clue" that there are survivors living on the island and the aliens are unable to swim, then someone could verbally announce that information over the radio and otherwise communicate with other humans. The same thing about how Regan's hearing aid incapacitates the creatures. Rather than explaining how to weaponized the high-frequency sound, only the hearing aid's noise is broadcast and anyone hearing it has to figure it out.
Stupidity: Peter Parker watches Richard Parker's last message, the upload he did on the plane to his super encrypted server. As he does that, the interface used is one of a mail and there's even the sender; "Rich-Park@oscorp.web." So Richard Parker sent his dying message he wanted to keep from the evil corporation...through his evil corporate mail account, and to an account that contains the location of his secret lab, "Roosevelt." (01:32:50)
Stupidity: Someone with the Punisher's tactical knowledge would not hang upside down from a chandelier to shoot in a 360-degree pattern at his targets. This would make him a sitting duck and it's only because of the movie tropes of Stormtrooper aim and cannon fodder henchmen that he isn't killed because of it.
Stupidity: Dane is a brilliant man who has invested countless millions (hence his billion asking price) and much planning into the operation. Yet he only makes one copy of the disk? Suppose that disk had been lost or broken? His whole operation would have been a total waste.
Stupidity: Given Laurie Strode survived an attack by a still on the loose maniac she's not guarded at the hospital?
Stupidity: During the execution scene when Carina is on the gallows with a noose around her neck, the plot depends on Henry being able to get to her before she is dropped through the trap door. However, there is so much slack in the hanging rope that during the chaotic fighting, when Carina is left unattended, she could easily have stepped off the small trap door and onto the solid flooring that is inches away. Instead, she continues standing there, waiting to be rescued.
Stupidity: Apparently, Ariel forgets how to write when she gets human legs. Ariel was able to sign a scroll underwater, but she apparently cannot do so to inform prince Eric of her identity.
Suggested correction: We see Ariel sign in English, but most likely they have an entirely different alphabet and language from our own.
Stupidity: When they first arrive on Planet Zero, Victor runs his hand through the mysterious green liquid on the planet surface. No scientist in their right mind would ever willingly attempt to touch a body part to an unknown substance. He had no way of knowing if the substance was toxic, corrosive, incendiary, hypothermic, etc. Moreover, none of his companions try to warn him against doing so.
Stupidity: At the end of the film, the Rehabs recruit gang members and give them all kinds of guns from shotguns, handguns, and automatic weapons. The cops and deputized citizens have similar weapons. But for all the shooting, not one gang member is hit and only one citizen appears to be shot (aside from the three blown off the building roof by the Rehab tank.) I don't think anyone has any bullets.
Suggested correction: Being a fan of horror films in general and watching Fright Night on TV doesn't necessarily give someone expert knowledge of how to fight vampires. In fact, not every vampire movie is consistent with rules (including this one) and it is far from stupid to consult a friend who knows more than you about the subject. Think about it like this: If you watched every comic book movie that was made and every TV show based on comic books, then found out Galactus was real and you had to fight him, you wouldn't ask your friend who was a comic nerd for advice?
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