Corrected entry: In the scene where everyone decides to leave and nuke the site from orbit, where was Bishop? He was last seen in the Med Lab studying one of the face-huggers. Yet he was nowhere to be found when everyone decided to leave, when everyone was outside, or when the ship crashed. Then, he's suddenly back saying that he'd check on Lt. Gorman and continue his research back in the Med Lab. Come to think of it, where was Lt. Gorman in all of this too? He was last seen getting knocked out-cold. Nobody was carrying him or helping him in any of those same scenes. Were they just going to leave him and Bishop in the Med Lab while they nuked the site from orbit?
Corrected entry: At the beginning of the movie, when Reidecker is discussing Newt's parents' prospecting claim with Al, he refers to them as "a mom and pop survey team" as if he did not know who they actually were by name. However, this remote colony had only 158 members, so they would have all known each other very well.
Corrected entry: After the ammo is removed when the team are under the reactor coolers Vasquez is still on point, even though her machine gun doesn't have a flamethrower capability and her hands are too occupied to be able to use one. Should have been replaced by another team member with an 'active' weapon.
Correction: True, but Vasquez's weapon is still loaded/powered and has a sophisticated sensor system which might be better at detecting enemies than naked eyes. It's still a bad choice by the command team because even if she sees something, she shouldn't be able to do anything except call it out (as far as Gorman and Apone know) or fire (which is what she and Drake actually do, against orders). But at least it's a logical error instead of a senseless one.
Vasquez's Smart gun is electric-operated, so the 2 smart gunners were taken electric sources (batteries) from them, instead of detaching 500-round drums, which effectively made them useless, but loaded still (if they didn't have spare parts, they wouldn't be able to fire against orders); as for the stupidity of actions - the chain starts long before, on Earth, since Burke wanted it to be stupid for his own purposes, he jeopardized as much as could with the mission, incl green Lt Gorman.
Corrected entry: It's true that the queen was going to use the elevator to follow Ripley and Newt as they were trying to escape. But, how would she know where the elevator stopped? It's not like there's only two levels. More so, she would have to hit the button before the first elevator even stopped to follow them up as quickly as it did. Either way, she shouldn't have been able to know where they get off and wind up on the exact same floor as Ripley and Newt.
Correction: It's not necessary that the queen knew what floor they were heading to, or even how elevators work at all. This human just killed all her eggs and is escaping by getting into a moving box. Then another moving box arrives. It's a pretty good guess it'll take the queen to the same place. And she didn't have to push any buttons - most elevators return to the main floor when not in use or if no buttons are pushed.
Corrected entry: Ripley and the remaining marines had welded and barricaded every way into the Medical Centre to keep the creepy-crawlies out. They checked all the construction blueprints. Yet they never thought to check the ceiling space, which was covered with a flimsy, lightweight grating that wasn't even bolted or welded down - Hicks merely lifts a panel easily with the tip of his rifle. I always thought that was a hoot.
Correction: The Aliens contorted their bodies to able to fit into the ceiling space, which was naturally quite small relative to the Aliens's overall size. Given their limited exposure to the creatures up to that point, it's not surprising that the Marines would have failed to anticipate this. Even Ripley's exposure to the single Alien aboard the Nostromo in the first film was not so extensive that she would necessarily have thought of it either.
Corrected entry: After the Marines are attacked in the atmosphere processor and regroup in the APC, they surmise that Corporal Hicks is now in command. Wouldn't the pilot of the drop ship be next in line? Wouldn't she outrank Hicks even if she was only a warrant officer?
Correction: The pilot of the ship (Ferro) was also a Corporal, and Hicks being the highest ranking marine on the ground (with Gorman incapacitated), Hicks was next in the chain of command.
And she likely told him offscreen.
Corrected entry: When Ripley and the others are trying to figure out what they are dealing with Ripley suggests something is laying these eggs since there must be over 100. But she knows there already are hundreds if not thousands of these eggs so there is no reason to assume something is laying new ones. (01:34:40 - 01:35:15)
Correction: Ripley is running through the logic and realizing there is something they don't yet understand about the alien's life cycle: where the eggs come from. Even if they happen to be the same eggs from the derelict ship, the eggs had to have been created at some point, by something. But how? What is this process? She may have started out talking about how the specific colonists were taken over, but by the time she asks "who's laying these eggs," she's asking about the concept, in general. Because unless the creatures were specifically bio-engineered not to be able to, they almost certainly have the ability to create more eggs.
Correction: That's exactly what she means. She's saying something must've laid the eggs, and will likely continue to lay more.
But there is no reason for her to say there must be a queen lying these eggs, she knows there are eggs, there have been eggs there for decades.
In Alien, she doesn't know that though. She and the rest of the crew don't know what they've seen and what they're up against. Yes, she knows it's an alien but that's it.
She knows there are eggs from experiences in Alien where the eggs are discovered in the alien spaceship. Yet we don't see a queen alien. In Aliens, they aren't in the alien spaceship, they're in the atmosphere processing plant. Yes they're both on the same planet but do you think the eggs walked from one location to another? There must be something laying new eggs which Ripley hasn't yet seen.
My idea is that either the colonists or the xenomorphs themselves brought the eggs over to the colony. Perfectly logical if there is no queen. Sure it's also logical to think there is a queen, as movie viewers, but my point is there is no reason for Ripley to think something is lying these eggs whilst she knows there already were thousands of eggs.
Ripley is making the (correct) assumption that because the colonists are being taken deeper into the colony, and that the aliens have built a hive in the colony itself; that the eggs found there were laid there. If the hive had been built inside the derelict spacecraft, then Ripley likely wouldn't have made that assumption.
But why not think the aliens had taken the eggs from the derelict craft and taken them closer to the incubators, thus inside the colony? I just think it's far-fetched she immediately starts talking about a possible queen whilst there is hardly any reason to do so, where did the queen come from supposedly? All they know is some people from the colony brought aliens inside them into the colony and then all hell broke loose. Her assumption is nothing more than to help the plot along.
I don't think her assumption is far fetched at all. She assumes that the eggs must have been laid by something; which is logical. She then assumes the thing that laid the eggs is continuing to do so; which is also logical. Where the queen came from in never addressed in Ripley's conversation with Bishop. The two are merely speculating that there must an alien lying eggs and it must be something they haven't seen yet. It's quite a bit of a leap to think that the aliens somehow know that there are additional eggs miles away from the colony and they should go get them and bring them back. This borders on clairvoyance. It is much more logical, based on what the characters know and see, that the eggs in the colony were laid there.
But those eggs in the derelict ship have been lying there for an eternity, even if you would only count the amount of time Ripley has been asleep since she encountered them, no reason to think at all new eggs have been laid, no reason. Thousands of eggs were inside the derelict ship, the colonists were exposed to the aliens through those eggs, brought back to their colony inside themselves (they didn't bring eggs). It's ridiculous to think something then came, a queen, and nested inside the colony, unless a queen was brought along by the colonists, but Ripley and nobody in general have any idea how the aliens reproduce. It's more logical to think the aliens can reproduce on their own, not that a queen is needed. That's more of my point, the name "Queen" being used. That's what borders on clairvoyance. We know the Aliens have extrasensory perception (as shown in this movie) so them being able to sense the eggs that far away is a lot more believable to me.
I'm struggling with understanding your reasoning for why it is so unbelievable that Ripley and Bishop deduce that something is lying the eggs. Their explanation doesn't come anywhere close to clairvoyance. They make a logical guess that eggs are laid. They deduced, along with Hudson, that the creatures behaved in a similar fashion to ants or bees. That would mean logically a queen is lying the eggs. Once again, where the queen "came from" is never addressed in their conversation because it is irrelevant. The characters have much more than a general idea of how the creatures reproduce, they know everything pertinent except where exactly the eggs come from. I'm not understanding why you say it to be more logical that "the aliens can reproduce on their own, not that a queen is needed." If you are saying it to be more logical to think of the aliens as closer to chickens than ants (i.e., each creature lays it's own eggs), that doesn't make sense because they are basing their "ants" theory on the presence of a hive.
Well all right they may have guessed how the aliens behave and reproduce correctly, they did see all colonists together and probably incubated, a nest, fine. To me its all about the idea Ripley starts talking about a queen being down there from the fact there are over 100 eggs down there. Again, she knows there are thousands of eggs on the derelict ship already. What we know doesn't work for Ripley who knows nothing about those things. They aren't even sure how the aliens got to the colony and Ripley never mentions the derelict ship that had thousands of eggs again. For all she knows the colonists had already taken eggs from the ship back to the colony, why not think that's what going on? But she immediately jumps to the queen theory, which helps her later on.
Ripley mentions the derelict and the thousands of eggs both in the inquest and again on the Sulaco, both prior to the mission starting. Once they arrive on the planet and discover the hive they deduce that it might work like an ant colony or bee hive. Ripley questions "So what's lying these eggs?" to which Bishop responds "It must be something we haven't seen yet." Hudson is the first to suggest a possible queen. This conversation doesn't help Ripley later on in the movie. She literally just runs into the queen's chamber completely by accident. The conversation is just there to plant an idea in the audience's mind that there is an alien queen. You are arguing that based on what the characters know, they should have come to an incorrect conclusion (the aliens are taking eggs from the derelict back to the colony) rather than the correct one, if they came to any conclusion at all. You also say that "what we know" doesn't apply to what Ripley knows about the creatures, except that isn't true at all. At this point, Ripley knows everything about the aliens that the audience knows. Coming up with the idea that "these things built a hive like bees do. I wonder if that means they have a queen like bees and ants do?" is completely rational.
Let's agree to disagree then. What we know as the audience is that some colonists went to the derelict ship and brought back aliens inside them, Ripley and the marines don't know that as contact was lost and Newt isn't telling anything. Where do the eggs come from? The derelict ship should be the first idea, not that something is lying them, inside the colony even. Sure something once has laid them but that could have been thousands of years ago, where would a queen come from? All this, no logical reason to assume there is a queen. That's my opinion and why I posted the mistake.
We cannot agree to disagree because your theory is incorrect. It is safe to say that Ripley would logically deduce that neither the colonists nor the Aliens are capable of bringing 150 eggs hundreds of miles back to the derelict. It not possible. And as we see, the eggs are freshly laid, glistening wet. The most logical explanation is that a Queen was birthed from one of the colonists, as later happened to Ripley herself in "Alien 3."
If the colonists didn't bring eggs back how and why did they get facehuggers into the containment tanks and had time to study them? They just happen to have caught some? If they were that much into a crisis they wouldn't have wasted time examining them. No, they brought eggs back to study them, everything was going well until some got loose and escaped underneath the processing station, including a queen. Ripley never saw the eggs amount in the colony and the old ones looked just as "fresh."
If they brought back eggs, where were they? All we saw were the facehugger specimens. Surely Cameron would have shown us eggs in addition to them. He doesn't miss details like that. As such, the two live ones were "surgically removed before embryo implantation." Remember? The dead ones were from colonist rescuers answering Newt's family's mayday call. No way did they try to bring back the eggs without having gotten inundated first. Come on man.
It's not even the point. My point was always the use of the word Queen and Ripley's blind assumption the eggs were being laid fresh.
Again, that was the logical conclusion, not someone transferring dozens of eggs hundreds of miles from the derelict to the colony. Why would the colonists waste time doing that? Put yourself in Ripley's head for a moment. You don't really believe that in all that was going down that she'd logically conclude that someone, whether it be human or alien, would travel back and forth hundreds of miles to the derelict and bring eggs, do you? Neither did Cameron.
Note that when this scene starts the characters' discussion has been going on in circles for quite some time (much like this thread!). Ripley recaps what they've deduced so far ("let's go over it again") in the present tense, describing what appears to be an ongoing reproductive cycle (which if correct would render the derelict's eggs kind of moot) and when it hits a blank she prompts for suggestions. These aren't "blind assumptions"-they're testing theories and drawing tentative conclusions.
A Queen was obviously brought along by the colonists, as Ripley was impregnated herself by one in "Alien 3."
I never denied there was a queen brought back. But certainly not in that one facehugger that got stuck to Newt's dad's face. They brought back more. They had to, they must have contained the first one.
Obviously they did bring back more. Rescuers to Newt's family were inundated with facehuggers. Two were removed surgically before embryo implantation. The other three, which may or may not have included Newt's father, successfully implanted their embryos. One of which was obviously a Queen.
I find the theory that the aliens travelled hundreds of miles out to the derelict to fetch over 150 eggs to be far-fetched. Obviously Ripley logically deduced, based on the fact that there was a hive in the processing station, that there was something laying eggs.
The colonists were told by the company to find the derelict ship and bring back eggs to study, they were told, and they had plenty of time to get a lot of eggs before things went wrong for them. Newt's dad was just an incident, they continued their research and brought more and more eggs over. Therefore there is no reason for Ripley to think those eggs are freshly made.
Nope. Simpson, in the Special Edition, was told by Burke to investigate a grid reference. No explanation. Newt's family investigates and her father is facehugged. A rescue team comes to them and several members get facehugged as well. No eggs are transferred. The Aliens, including the Queen, are borne of these colonists and the Queen lays the eggs. Period. There is every reason for Ripley to think those eggs are freshly made. I don't know where you get these crazy ideas but you are dead wrong.
So you are telling me the people rescuing Newt's family were stupid enough to enter the ship as well and get facehugged just like Newt's dad did? And then more rescuers came to rescue these new schmucks? That's even more stupid.
Stupid people do stupid things. Ever read a story of how someone goes in a manhole and is overcome by carbon monoxide or something similar? They rarely find just the one body, but usually the one or two people who go in to "rescue" the first victim.
I've got no problem with stupid people doing stupid things. I just don't know what's the problem with my theory, if it's plausible. Again, it's not even the point of my problem with the scene in question.
Newt's parents did a stupid thing too, as did Kane. Otherwise we wouldn't have a movie. It's that your theory is implausible, period. The derelict served its purpose in the story and was no longer a concern to Ripley. She logically concluded that the hive eggs were being laid by someone or something. Surely no-one else was going back into the derelict to bring back eggs after what happened. Lesson learned. Occam's razor: all things being equal, the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.
Corrected entry: When Ripley shows off her skill with the power-loader, another walks along in the background. Look carefully, it's Ripley driving.
Corrected entry: In Alien, Kane refers to the eggs as "leathery objects, like eggs or something" but does not say how many. In Aliens, Ripley says in her deposition, "Kane, who went into that ship, said he saw thousands of eggs there. Thousands." After Kane comes out of his coma, he couldn't have told anyone about the number of eggs. When Dallas asks him, "Do you remember anything about the planet?" he just shakes his head no. (00:13:10)
Correction: During Kane's report BEFORE this exert he does state he sees hundreds of eggs, maybe thousands. Where he is initially lowered into the pit and looks out and sees all the eggs.
Just watched this scene, in both the theatrical and director's cut, Kane does not mention how many. Could you please point out the moment in which he said there thousands of them potentially?
Corrected entry: When Gorman is knocked unconscious, his eyes are open. Only dead people keep their eyes open; Gorman is in a deep sleep - he's not dead.
Correction: This entry is completely wrong. Many people have been knock unconscious with their eyes open. And being unconscious is NOT a deep sleep (although I have witnessed people who sleep with their eyes open).
Corrected entry: At the end, when Bishop gets impaled by the queen's tail, he spews up white blood, some of which lands on Ripley's chin, but in the next shot her face is clean. (02:06:20)
Correction: It is possible that between shots she wiped her face on her sleeve as in an instinctive reaction.
Corrected entry: When Ripley drives the APC into the station to pick up the marines, Hudson is apparently injured since Hicks has to practically carry him out of the alien hive and into the APC. But in subsequent scenes he has absolutely no trouble walking and his only injury seems to be the acid burn on his arm that he got after he made it to the APC. (01:17:10)
Correction: He could have just twisted his ankle a little. I've done it a few times, its painful to put your full weight on it but the pain dissapears in only a few minutes.
Corrected entry: Bishop tells Ripley that she has 19 minutes at the end when she charges off to find Newt, but seconds later as she walks out of the ship the computer voice says there are only 15 minutes left to get to safe distance. Both are computers that would be working from the same data, why would there be such a large discrepancy? (01:50:10)
Corrected entry: In several of the wide shots you can see the screens on the motion trackers don't have their normal 'radar' type displays, they're just blank screens with a blinking light behind them. Two such instances are when Vasquez and Hudson are searching the colony for a life sign (which turns out to be hamsters in a cage) and right after the aliens cut power to the colony. (00:39:15 - 01:36:25)
Correction: When I first saw the wide shots I thought so too. But in all of the wide shots the screens on the motion trackers are seen on an angle so the data readouts are hard to see. Also since this is far in the future they could be LCD screens which would make the data hard to see on an angle.
Corrected entry: In the scene when the marines are making their first sweep of the complex and Hicks says "looks like they bagged one of Ripley's bad guys here," how do they kill the alien? If they used weapons where are they? Why didn't the marines use them when the drop ship crashed and they only had four pulse rifles with about 50 rounds each?
Correction: They say, during the survey, "looks like small-arms fire" which probably means light pistols, plus there are references to seismic survey charges, which would be small explosives. As to why the marines didn't use them - they never actually found the pistols, and it would be a little difficult to use explosives after the colonists have already blown them up.
Corrected entry: When the marines look at the blueprint of the atmosphere processing plant, you can see that the plant is a smooth cone or dome like structure. You can also see the structure when the marines first arrive at the plant to look for the mising colonists. But when Ripley goes back to the plant to look for Newt, the structure of the plant changes completely to resemble something that looks like an off shore oil rig with spires and towers and pipes going all over the place.
Correction: The processor looks like a dome from the outside. When Ripley goes to rescue Newt the dropship is flown inside the processer's dome, where all the pipes and stuff can be seen, which is why it looks like an oil rig.
Corrected entry: When Ripley is in the atmosphere processor, trying to get away from the queen and gunning down drones, the camera keeps tracking the ammo counter, and it gets down to really low...about 9. She then shoots lots more rounds (if the previous speed that the counter goes down by is any comparison), far more than she had the ammo for.
Corrected entry: In the director's cut watch the temperature guages on the remote sentry controls, you only see the temperature change once, regardless of whether the guns were firing or not.
Correction: The temp guages change every time we see them when the guns either start or stop firing. It's only a small change in most cases, but it still changes.
Corrected entry: In the director's cut, the marines had salvaged four robot autocannons with motion-targeting systems, two of which are placed in the access tunnel to the power plant. Right before they close the hatch, Hudson and Vasquez throw in a waste bin to test them; it is shot to pieces. Later, however, these autocannons still have their full ammo load, as seen on the computer counters.
Correction: By the time that we actually see the ammo counters, we already hear the guns going off, so there's no real way of telling how much ammo was already spent, since we don't see the count down for those two guns start off at 400.
Corrected entry: Towards the end of the movie, Ripley calls down both elevators to escape the Queen. When they arrive, she gets into the one on the right, leaving the Queen to use the one on the left. When the lifts reach the top, Ripley comes out of the one on the left and the Queen comes out of the one on the right.
Correction: Bishop was indeed in the med-lab. Since the APC was wrecked, they had no method of getting back to the complex safely. They had to wait for the dropship to pick them up, and then fly them over to the main complex building to pick up Bishop. And also, Hicks and Hudson are carrying the injured Gorman. You can see him quite on the stretcher that they are both carrying.