Avengers: Endgame

New this month Question: Spoiler! Given Gamora is brought to 2019 from 2014 with no ill effects, presumably just spinning off a new timeline with no Gamora in it (or Thanos for that matter, making that new timeline pretty peaceful), why can't the Avengers just go and "retrieve" alternate-timeline versions of the other people they've lost? They don't seem too worried about the timelines that have branched off due to their actions, eg. Cap going back in time (a whole other issue), Loki stealing the Tesseract, etc. They could hop back to a day earlier and basically get their friends back.

Jon Sandys Premium member

New this month Answer: They actually do have some concern for the alternate/branched off timelines - that's the whole reason Hulk proposes returning the stones (after they're done with them) to the point they were stolen from, so that those branched off timelines won't be royally screwed with a stone (or 2) missing from their timeline (i.e. The Ancient One telling Hulk that the sorcerers need the stone in order to combat the forces of darkness). Granted, some of the changes they've made they can't do much about - not without spending more time and further interfering (Loki escaping with the Tesseract in the alternate 2012 timeline, or the alternate 2014 timeline's Thanos and co. Traveling to main-timeline 2023 - leaving alt-2014 without a Thanos, which as you say, may not be too bad). With all that in mind, I think they would be hesitant to 'steal' their friends from the past because think about what they were doing just a few days ago... trying to figure out how to unsnap the 50% of the universe that Thanos dusted. If they take their friends, who were pretty integral to figuring out how to/and carrying out the undoing of that, they would be dooming that new alternate 2023 timeline to failure in their endeavors.

Since Thanos coming from the past didn't change 2023, I don't think taking their friends from the past would change anything either. They are constantly creating new time lines/universes. However, the only people they lost were Black Widow and Vision, and Hulk tried to bring Black Widow back and failed with the stones whilst Vision lived on the mind stone, which is gone (brought back to it's own timeline). So bringing those 2 back isn't going to be happening. Who else did they lose?


New this month Chosen answer: There's really no reason that they couldn't. Probably an oversight by the writers. I think an easy fix could maybe have been the Ancient One or Doctor Strange warning the heroes that continually altering the space-time continuum could potentially lead to paradoxes that threaten the existence of the multiverse and it's better to just let sleeping dogs lie. It would have been somewhat of a cop-out, but it would have at least addressed it.

Phaneron Premium member

New this month Question: Spoiler! At the end why would Steve Rogers pass his Captain America mantle to Sam Wilson? He doesn't possess any kind of super strength, and his only talents are flying and being a decent fighter.

Gavin Jackson

New this month Answer: This is right out of the comics. When Steve Rogers retires as Captain America in All-New Captain America #1, he passes the mantle to Sam Wilson.

wizard_of_gore Premium member

New this month Answer: As shown throughout the events of the "Captain America" and "Avengers" sequels, Cap and Sam are very much kindred spirits with a great deal in common. Cap thus saw him as the perfect person to pass the mantle onto.


New this month Question: Should Nebula not have ceased to exist after the other one was killed?


New this month Answer: No - as stated in the film, timelines/realities are independent from each other. Thanos/Nebula coming to "our" timeline means a new timeline is created where they don't exist any more, but we don't follow that one. "Our" Nebula isn't affected by the actions of the "alternate", because "our" Nebula's history is unchanged.

New this month Question: Why did Vision not appear in the film?


New this month Answer: Short version, because he's dead. Bruce only brought back everyone Thanos "snapped", and Vision was killed before that. Now, whether Shuri managed to finish her work before then, somehow "backing him up" or otherwise separating him from the mind stone, we don't know as yet - it may be they somehow revive him in a future film, or the upcoming WandaVision TV series. But for now, he's gone.

Jon Sandys Premium member

New this month Question: How did Thanos get to the present timeline? Wasn't Nebula left with just one dose of pym particles, which she used to get back?

New this month Answer: It shows Nebula presenting the vial of Pym particles to Thanos, it's probable that he (or someone like Maw) was able to reverse engineer the particles so that they had their own supply to use.

New this month Answer: She used the excess Pym particles that Tony and Cap brought back.


Is that your own personal interpretation of it? They don't show it in the movie, unless I am mistaken. And it should be Thanos to use the Pym particles to jump into the Quantum dimension, how does she having the particles in the present affect it?

Her robotic fingers seem to be red as they go into the machine, implying they're making use of the Pym particles. And they had Nebula's "GPS" unit they all wore on their hands - given Thanos' technology they could presumably have copied or adapted it in some way to work with the ship, positioning it in time and space if nothing else.

Jon Sandys Premium member

Yes that's my interpretation. The machine works differently than the suits. She did a lot of modification to it as well before activating it. She somehow managed to get an entire ship transported to the future in a matter of minutes. The only logical conclusion is that she used Pym particles to power the machine and then pull the ship through.


New this month Question: Spoiler! Time seems to be defined as somewhat linear, with alternate realities branching off rather than changing the past of any given timeline. But if that's the case, how can Steve go back in time and stay, which should branch off a new reality with him in it, but then "catch up" with "our" reality? Seems like if he stayed in the past he'll have made plenty of changes.

New this month Answer: He stayed behind but didn't reveal himself or change anything whilst there. That way the future isn't altered and stays "the same." This does mean that the timeline we have been following is the timeline where Cap stayed behind and there were basically 2 Steve Rogers at all times. That can theoretically work in a linear timeline idea.


True, I think that does mostly line up. Peggy told him she got married to someone he rescued, but that could easily have been a cover story so as not to tip him off about what happens too early.

Jon Sandys Premium member

New this month Answer: The Russo brothers have elaborated somewhat: "the old Cap at the end of the movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam." They didn't explain his jump back, which leaves the door open for interdimensional travel. They certainly implied there's a bit more to the story which might get revealed in time. But thus far we know there's an alternate timeline where 2019 Cap was running around helping people (again, per Russo interviews), not interfering with "our" timeline.

Jon Sandys Premium member

New this month Answer: Since Cap was frozen for 70 years, he could potentially live out his life back in that time without risking interfering with his future self's actions which would allow him to arrive back to the same point where he left. It's not too dissimilar from the first two "Back to the Future" films where Marty arrives back in 1985 from 1955. As long as Marty takes no actions to prevent himself from going back in time in that moment, then he can arrive back to the same point he left without causing a major disruption in the space-time continuum. Consequently though, since Cap married Peggy when he went back, this would effectively erase the marriage she revealed having had in "The Winter Soldier," which could cause minor differences in the timeline.

Phaneron Premium member

This is the point though - it's made clear that they can't change the past, just branch off a new timeline. And given we know she got married in "our" timeline, him going back created a new one, one where she married him instead. And that's all well and good, but that leaves him stranded in timeline "B", with no way to jump back to "A." That said of course there's no real reason this couldn't be hand-waved away as using Dr. Strange or other tech to cross dimensions somehow, it's just mildly annoying they didn't clarify it. :-).

Jon Sandys Premium member

Well the way they did it makes it complicated I think. The Pym particles made a certain type of time travel possible I think, a different kind than the time gem for example can do. It's irreversible, but not linear. The linear timeline is what the ancient one explained about the gems. They had to be put back in their place in time in order for the fabric of the universe to stay in tact. Only that had to be restored, but not what Cap did, or even creating alternate timelines in general (which did happen with Loki disappearing).


I feel though that since two Caps were existing in the same timeline, one of which was frozen for several decades, then the Cap that went back to be with Peggy can still end up in the same spot as long as he doesn't interfere with himself or his fellow Avengers in their "future" missions. He might cause a slightly different timeline to happen, but as long as he lets his other self play out the events as they originally unfolded, it allows that other self to be in the same position to travel back to return the Infinity Stones and then be with Peggy, rendering any branching timeline to be inconsequential because he is putting himself in a time loop. Just like Marty in "Back to the Future." Marty's actions in the past create a slightly new timeline, but he is still traveling back to 1955 at the exact same point in this slightly different 1985.

Phaneron Premium member

Can't compare it to Back to the Future, there was always 1 Marty in Back to the Future since he goes back to a time before he was born. The changes to the timeline in Back to the Future should have butterflied a lot away. Not sure what you mean with "still end up in the same spot" if there are 2 Caps. The Cap that went back to be with Peggy didn't have to "end up in the same spot", just stay out of history until his past self goes back. Like you say, it's a loop for him.


By "end up in the same spot," I mean the Cap that coexists with the Cap that goes back in time is allowed to play out the events from "The Avengers," "The Winter Soldier," "Civil War," etc. without his alternate self interfering in matters, thus he is able to reach the same point in time where he goes back to return the Infinity Stones and then be with Peggy, which is what creates/continues his loop.

Phaneron Premium member

He wouldn't be stranded in "B" if he still had his TimeGPS device (which I imagine he would've held onto). That could have allowed him to make the jump back to the "A" timeline. That device is what links/keeps the time traveler tethered/able to return to their original timeline and not get stuck. Either he used it to make the jump back as he normally would have, or he could've employed some of the great minds of the alternate "B" timeline he was living in (i.e. Hank Pym, Howard Stark (if he prevented his assassination in the "B" timeline), Tony Stark, etc...) to use the GPS's 'tether' as a way to get back to "A"

New this month Question: How did Tony know where to find the Tesseract?

New this month Answer: His father worked for S.H.I.E.L.D. and he knew they were in possession of it. He deduced what year and location based on that information.

Phaneron Premium member

New this month Answer: Both Tony and Steve knew that Howard Stark recovered the Tesseract in 1945. SHIELD were then conducting research on it. They knew it was likely stored in the secret shield facility in New Jersey. They weren't 100% certain, but it was their best chance of locating it and at the very least they could obtain additional Pym particles to try another time if necessary.

New this month Continuity mistake: In the final battle, Wasp and Ant-Man are in the van trying to get the quantum tunnel operational. We cut back to the fight and we can see Ant-Man there too, fighting in his giant form.

More mistakes in Avengers: Endgame

New this month
Thanos: I am... inevitable.
Tony Stark: And I... am... Iron Man!

More quotes from Avengers: Endgame

New this month Trivia: Robert Downey Jr. was the only member of the cast who was allowed to read the entire script.

More trivia for Avengers: Endgame

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