Corrected entry: When the Avengers got the space stone and mind stone from the past, they were in the form of the Tesseract and the scepter, but when Steve goes back to replace them, they are in their raw forms. If they want to undo any offshoot timelines, they would have to replace the time stones in their original encasements, at least some of which have been destroyed in the process of obtaining the raw stones. If the Tesseract doesn't exist in Tesseract form before Captain Marvel, would the light speed ship by Dr Larson have been made, etc. And the events of Avengers 1 would have been altered...Ultron/Vision/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver timelines would likely be disrupted if the scepter itself is not replaced, only the mind stone. It would be an anomaly in the time line.
Jon Sandys
30th Apr 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
1st May 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Corrected entry: When the portals are opened you can see the Asgardian army coming through, but the Asgardian army was destroyed by Hela in Thor: Ragnarok.
Correction: They are Asgardians from New Asgard. They have had 5 years to train new soldiers.
At the beginning of Infinity War the spaceship with Asgardian refugees is intercepted by Thanos. There are a lot of dead people on the floor and the ship is completely destroyed with the power stone. It's not explained how some Asgardians escaped from the ship and reached Earth. In Endgame, new Asgard is just an small village with the survivors from the spaceship and the snap. 5 years isn't enough time to reassemble an army because most of the survivors were woman and children that escaped from the ship.
Asgardian women are perfectly capable of being fearsome warriors, and some of the children will now be young adults. After what happened to their people it's hardly beyond belief that a lot of them would be keen to become fighters to defend their fragile nation.
Correction: Actually when the Asgardians come through you only see a handful, 5 years is plenty to turn 16 year olds into 21 year old soldiers.
The Bifrost battle in Thor: Ragnarok shows ordinary Asgardian men and women fighting. They may not be elite guards but they were willing to fight.
27th Apr 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Question: How did Thanos get to the present timeline? Wasn't Nebula left with just one dose of pym particles, which she used to get back?
Answer: It shows Nebula presenting the vial of Pym particles to Thanos, it's probable that he (or someone like Maw) was able to reverse engineer the particles so that they had their own supply to use.
Answer: 2014 Nebula would have needed the vial to power her future self's suit to get to 2023 so she could impersonate her. But Thanos would have had to re-create enough of the particles so that the time tunnel could lock onto his ship and pull it through.
Answer: She used the excess Pym particles that Tony and Cap brought back.
Is that your own personal interpretation of it? They don't show it in the movie, unless I am mistaken. And it should be Thanos to use the Pym particles to jump into the Quantum dimension, how does she having the particles in the present affect it?
Her robotic fingers seem to be red as they go into the machine, implying they're making use of the Pym particles. And they had Nebula's "GPS" unit they all wore on their hands - given Thanos' technology they could presumably have copied or adapted it in some way to work with the ship, positioning it in time and space if nothing else.
Yes that's my interpretation. The machine works differently than the suits. She did a lot of modification to it as well before activating it. She somehow managed to get an entire ship transported to the future in a matter of minutes. The only logical conclusion is that she used Pym particles to power the machine and then pull the ship through.
No. Thanos on his end, would need those particles to get small and enter the Quantum Realm. Like the others.
Answer: The directors have addressed this and confirmed that Thanos gave the Pym particles to Ebony Maw (a brilliant scientist) who then reverse engineered them and created more.
Answer: He could have gotten the Pym particles from Pym himself. Likely by force. He has Nebula's memory and saw their whole plan. But, the official answer that came out was Maw reversed engineered them.
25th Apr 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Question: Spoiler! Time seems to be defined as somewhat linear, with alternate realities branching off rather than changing the past of any given timeline. But if that's the case, how can Steve go back in time and stay, which should branch off a new reality with him in it, but then "catch up" with "our" reality? Seems like if he stayed in the past he'll have made plenty of changes.
Answer: The Russo brothers have elaborated somewhat: "the old Cap at the end of the movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam." They didn't explain his jump back, which leaves the door open for interdimensional travel. They certainly implied there's a bit more to the story which might get revealed in time. But thus far we know there's an alternate timeline where 2019 Cap was running around helping people (again, per Russo interviews), not interfering with "our" timeline.
Answer: He stayed behind but didn't reveal himself or change anything whilst there. That way the future isn't altered and stays "the same." This does mean that the timeline we have been following is the timeline where Cap stayed behind and there were basically 2 Steve Rogers at all times. That can theoretically work in a linear timeline idea.
True, I think that does mostly line up. Peggy told him she got married to someone he rescued, but that could easily have been a cover story so as not to tip him off about what happens too early.
He originally had the tools to go back return the stones and then return back to his timeline. Instead of returning back right away when the job was done he just hung around and lived his life. Then as an old man used the particle to return back to his original timeline effectively leaving the different timeline he had just been living in for the last however many years. He could always return back to the the original timeline at any point. He just decided to wait.
Yeah see I don't agre to this because if he had used the particles again to go back to the future after living his life in the past he would have ended up on the platform wouldn't he? I say he just grew old and waited for that moment of his younger self going to back to sit down on that bench.
That's not possible. (a) He was in the ice for 60 years. How would he know what not to do? (b) There's nothing he could do that wouldn't change the timeline. Anything he did means someone else didn't do it from the previous timeline. A house he rented, food he ate, places he went. Even whatever fake name he uses alters history as it wasn't there before.
The point is all those things did exist, but they didn't mess with the events that occurred in the movies. So not a different timeline than the one we have been following, but the same. This can only be done if the second Cap stays out of history. I'm not a fan of the butterfly effect, it doesn't have any basis, that's why I always explain timelines in this way. An extra spoon in the dishwasher or an extra tank of gasoline doesn't change the timeline so much that it can't be the one we were following anymore. So yes, he changed the timeline, but that's the timeline we have been following.
Answer: Since Cap was frozen for 70 years, he could potentially live out his life back in that time without risking interfering with his future self's actions which would allow him to arrive back to the same point where he left. It's not too dissimilar from the first two "Back to the Future" films where Marty arrives back in 1985 from 1955. As long as Marty takes no actions to prevent himself from going back in time in that moment, then he can arrive back to the same point he left without causing a major disruption in the space-time continuum. Consequently though, since Cap married Peggy when he went back, this would effectively erase the marriage she revealed having had in "The Winter Soldier," which could cause minor differences in the timeline.
This is the point though - it's made clear that they can't change the past, just branch off a new timeline. And given we know she got married in "our" timeline, him going back created a new one, one where she married him instead. And that's all well and good, but that leaves him stranded in timeline "B", with no way to jump back to "A." That said of course there's no real reason this couldn't be hand-waved away as using Dr. Strange or other tech to cross dimensions somehow, it's just mildly annoying they didn't clarify it. :-).
Well the way they did it makes it complicated I think. The Pym particles made a certain type of time travel possible I think, a different kind than the time gem for example can do. It's irreversible, but not linear. The linear timeline is what the ancient one explained about the gems. They had to be put back in their place in time in order for the fabric of the universe to stay in tact. Only that had to be restored, but not what Cap did, or even creating alternate timelines in general (which did happen with Loki disappearing).
I feel though that since two Caps were existing in the same timeline, one of which was frozen for several decades, then the Cap that went back to be with Peggy can still end up in the same spot as long as he doesn't interfere with himself or his fellow Avengers in their "future" missions. He might cause a slightly different timeline to happen, but as long as he lets his other self play out the events as they originally unfolded, it allows that other self to be in the same position to travel back to return the Infinity Stones and then be with Peggy, rendering any branching timeline to be inconsequential because he is putting himself in a time loop. Just like Marty in "Back to the Future." Marty's actions in the past create a slightly new timeline, but he is still traveling back to 1955 at the exact same point in this slightly different 1985.
Can't compare it to Back to the Future, there was always 1 Marty in Back to the Future since he goes back to a time before he was born. The changes to the timeline in Back to the Future should have butterflied a lot away. Not sure what you mean with "still end up in the same spot" if there are 2 Caps. The Cap that went back to be with Peggy didn't have to "end up in the same spot", just stay out of history until his past self goes back. Like you say, it's a loop for him.
By "end up in the same spot," I mean the Cap that coexists with the Cap that goes back in time is allowed to play out the events from "The Avengers," "The Winter Soldier," "Civil War," etc. without his alternate self interfering in matters, thus he is able to reach the same point in time where he goes back to return the Infinity Stones and then be with Peggy, which is what creates/continues his loop.
He wouldn't be stranded in "B" if he still had his TimeGPS device (which I imagine he would've held onto). That could have allowed him to make the jump back to the "A" timeline. That device is what links/keeps the time traveler tethered/able to return to their original timeline and not get stuck. Either he used it to make the jump back as he normally would have, or he could've employed some of the great minds of the alternate "B" timeline he was living in (i.e. Hank Pym, Howard Stark (if he prevented his assassination in the "B" timeline), Tony Stark, etc...) to use the GPS's 'tether' as a way to get back to "A"
Exactly. What people seem to miss is that throughout the movie, the time travelers are creating alternate timelines, but always return to their original one. That's the way time travel works in the MCU.
That's a good point - if they go to the battle of New York and make any change at all, that's a new timeline which they're technically in, but they can still return to their original one without any problem. That new one then carries on without them.
Answer: What's interesting is that during Civil War when Peggy dies and people are carrying her coffin, there is a white haired man of Steve's build carrying one side, but it never shows his face. I believe this is a little Easter egg to show he was there all along.
Answer: Remember Cap took three vials of Pym particles. One for himself and Tony and another for this reason.
Answer: Theory 1: The MCU as we know it is a product of Captain America going back in time and returning the stones. Theory 2: the older Captain America is from another timeline. That's how he got a new shield.
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Correction: They aren't concerned with creating any alternate timelines, as they won't affect their own timeline. They only agree to return the Stones to the point where they are taken in order to avoid any major catastrophes being caused by the Stones' absence in their respective timelines (i.e. the Ancient One tells Dr. Banner that she needs the Time Stone returned to her reality, as it is her chief weapon against forces of darkness). The Mind Stone ending up in an alternate timeline as a result of being removed from Loki's scepter and not leading to the creation of Ultron or giving the Maximoff twins their powers will not lead to a catastrophic event.
Phaneron ★
This is not consistent with Captain America's comment "I know, clip all the branches"
Another way around that would be to return the Time Stone to the Ancient One first and then have her use the Time Stone to return the Space and Mind Stones to their previous housings. We know the Time Stone is capable of doing that because Thanos used it to bring the Mind Stone back into existence after Scarlet Witch destroyed it.
Phaneron ★
Their primary concern appears to be removing the stones from where they "should" be, or taking one and leaving others - the ancient one implies it's that imbalance which causes a "bad" timeline to branch off, the black line she demonstrates, not just making other changes. Otherwise even Hawkeye going back in time and removing a baseball glove would have catastrophic consequences and need to be remedied.
Jon Sandys ★
He has the infinity stones. It's quite possible he could have used them in some fashion to return the others to the original form. For example, he could have done it or asked the Ancient One to use the time stone to return them to their original form. Regardless, there is no way he or Hulk wouldn't have planned for this before he left. They were in no rush to return them. They had a time machine.
DetectiveGadget85