Goekhan

16th Dec 2020

Constantine (2005)

Corrected entry: Constantine threatens demon Balthazar with the last Rites, so Balthazar goes to heaven where he for sure doesn't want to end. However, if it is so easy and possible even for a demon to go to heaven, why is occult expert Constantine still searching so desperately for the big way out of hell? He only needs to find a catholic priest who gives Constantine the last Rites.

Goekhan

Correction: Constantine mentions to Balthasar afterwards you have to ask to be forgiven before you are accepted into heaven. He needs to believe, it only a bluff. Constantine himself is too stubborn to ask to be forgiven and instead feels the need to buy his way into heaven, he does not believe in the grace of God (who he feels is a hypocrite). The demon can not be sent to heaven just because he was read his last rites, he doesn't believe in the grace of God either.

lionhead

Constantine himself is too stubborn to ask to be forgiven and would rather go to hell where the devil would so love to meet him? To be honest, that's even a bigger plot hole. The whole story is about Constantine being too selfish and now him being more stubborn than being selfish is the problem? I don't think so.

Goekhan

The problem is he doesn't believe in the grace of God. Thats bigger than his stubbornness. He knows he is going to hell, but he doesn't think that's fair and should be admitted to heaven regardless of his believes. He won't submit to the hypocrisy of God. He doesn't like God, almost as much as he doesn't like the devil. But naturally he doesn't want to go to hell so he tries to buy his way into heaven by fighting the devil's spawns. But he would never bow to God to get to heaven. At the end of the movie he does find a way though, by sacrifice, but an opportunity like that needs to present itself, he can't create one, unlike being forgiven. It's not a plot hole, it's the plot.

lionhead

I am really upset with "corrections" like this. With stubbornness people could "correct" any movie mistake caused by any protagonists. And it also makes no sense. I think the entry is valid and should be published without any "corrections"! Constantine for sure would believe in the grace of god if he would get some AND he would for sure get some, if he would call a priest which gives him his last Rites. Problem solved. You are creating a problem where no problem is, just pure assumption. And for sure he would bow to god cause he doesn't want to bow to devil even less.

Goekhan

The correction is valid if you ask me. Constantine specifically refers to God as being a kid with an ant farm, and doesn't really believe God cares that much for humanity. At the end of the film, he acknowledges that God does indeed have a plan for everyone and that he had to die twice to finally understand that. That's Constantine's arc. As lionhead said, that is literally the film's plot.

Phaneron

Problem with the correction is, that he escapes hell not because he has lost his stubbornness or because his relationship to god has changed (which has not). He indirectly escapes hell cause he commited suicide to save Angela from being killed by Gabriel. Which wasn't even awarded by god, only the devil was so nice (!) and asked him unnecessarily for a quid-pro-quo wish. And that's not even suicide, it is martyrdom and that alone should buy him a ticket out of hell, plus he saves a woman he loves, plus he keeps the balance in balance. 3 tickets in once, he doesn't even has to trade his soul for the soul of Isabel, he has already done more than enough. There are many plot holes.

Goekhan

You assume those 3 tickets are enough, but they aren't. All of them are him still trying to buy his way into heaven. It's about love for god, not love for another person nor fighting the devil. Plus he was dying anyway. But the self-sacrifice, not his life saved by the devil but the twin sister send to heaven, is the one thing he could do to be admitted.

lionhead

He already sacrificed himself for one sister, second sister is unnecessary. The devil's him granting a wish is just a feelgood moment for the audience to save the second sister. That's unnecessary and therefore a plot hole.

Goekhan

He didn't sacrifice himself for the first sister. He did it to stop Mammon, not for the love of Angela.

lionhead

"Stubbornness" is a valid correction when people submit mistakes, especially plot holes, because they think a character should act in a different way than they would. Nothing about Constantine's behave or believe goes against his already established character (which is based on the comics). Having him act the way you want him to could also be seen by some as a plot device and thus a plot hole.

Bishop73

However him committing suicide a second time, is an act of love, maybe not for god but for Angela (so she doesn't gets stabbed by Gabriel). This is martyrdom cause he also prevents Mammon to conquer earth and shows the love for an other human being. The one or the other way he has got the ticket out of hell already. Saving Isabel which he also does, isn't even that much compared what he has already done. So why should god forgive him after saving Isabel but not before (after saving Angela). The devil offering him a wish like a jinn is silly and unnecessary for sure.

Goekhan

He commited suicide the second time to stop Mammon because he knows Satan will show up and wouldn't like it when he finds out his son is trying to take power on Earth. He doesn't do it for love of Angela, nor would God see that as good enough to admit him into heaven (as he would still be buying his way into it). God and Satan are bound to certain rules (according to the "game" they play as mentioned by Constantine) so in exchange for helping Satan, Satan grants him a wish, not realising it is a wish that will admit Constantine into heaven. He is admitted into heaven not because he is forgiven, but because of his self-sacrifice (as Gabriel mentions, and the bible). I think you really need to rewatch both the conversation between Gabriel and Constantine at the church as well as the conversation between Constantine and Satan to understand the reasoning behind it all.

lionhead

He already self-sacrificed himself for one sister, second sister is unnecessary. The devil's him granting a wish is just a feelgood moment for the audience to save the second sister. That's a plot hole.

Goekhan

Correction: Constantine was bluffing when he threatened Balthazar with the Last Rites. "True contrition" is required as well. This is different than just asking for forgiveness, something Constantine shows not to have. Of course, the Devil heals him in hopes that Constantine will once again damn himself to hell.

Bishop73

8th Dec 2020

Constantine (2005)

Corrected entry: There is no reason for Lucifer to grant John a wish. The devil is neither a nice guy nor a Jinn, and he already got what was "in the pot." Of course Constantine was very helpful to him (commiting suicide to signal the devil that his son is revolting against him), but the devil for sure would just take "the gift", only sarcastically saying "thank you." Realistically it would end with twin-sister Isabel staying in hell and maybe John going to heaven because his suicide rescued Angela from getting stabbed by Gabriel and threw back Mammon in hell, a godly sacrifice.

Goekhan

Correction: This is something you think the movie should have done differently. It's not a plot hole.

Phaneron

6th Dec 2020

Constantine (2005)

Corrected entry: When Angela is watching the security video on her laptop of her sister committing suicide, her Sister "Izzy" is saying "Constantine." Near to zero probability that a security video is recording audio, especially on the rooftop of a clinic.

Goekhan

Correction: She isn't saying it over the audio of the video. She is saying it to her twin psychic sister telepathically.

lionhead

Agreed, especially since we see Angela rewind the footage and Isabel doesn't say anything the 2nd time.

Bishop73

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